2019: "Our incredibly fragile tools only work with one micromanaged theme nobody likes. Please take systems integration advice from webshit design nerds because branding"
- via @firstname.lastname@example.org
> denies the developer the possibility to control their brand
and rightly so.
If a developer cares more about their brand, and their app having the same UX for everyone, instead of providing the users (and distros which act as a proxy for their users) with building blocks they can use to make a coherent system, then that developer is doing something wrong.
For example, if someone tells you "Kdenlive sucks and keeps crashing", you don't know which version of Kdenlive that person was running, on which distro, with which versions of libraries, and how much the distro patched Kdenlive. So the opinion of "sucks and keeps crashing" attaches itself to the implicit "Kdenlive" brand, whether Kdenlive developers want such brand to exist or not.
... unless you like IE the most ;-)
Regarding community, companies can also build communities. Not each their own community but among them, while competing: Red Hat, SUSE, Canonical and many many others collaborate to one the most impressive kernels in history and any improvement benefits them all.
@Wolf480pl @sir I can certainly understand that other apps have a harder time dealing with themes than I do and as such they may well be right to push distro to take theming as a more serious endeavor.
But I find it's my role to say "they don't represent all GTK developers". Because I want Odysseus to be able to work with other themes, and in my case the theming issues don't seem to be too bad.
And I seriously don't care that much about branding, it's just something I had to do.
what a shit take
I think it's actually @email@example.com
@sir gtk stylesheeting seems to be a mess, but freaking out about icon themes and custom app icons is just bizarre
Damn I didn't read something this stupid since so long it's worth loosing time replying.
- The UI toolkit is GTK, hence C.
- CSS was and still is a right choice: it's a well defined specilized language that which benefit theme maintainers greatly, there is no point reinventing the wheel.
- When you develop an application you very often have to create new specilized widgets, and sometimes you need to style and the styling machinery may not provide all the tools you need, so you have to adjust your custom style extensions to the themes you are targetting. You can't support all the themes the next season's fashion will make distros ship by default.
- When distros change the default theme and force it onto apps, they effectively change the SDK the apps have been developped for. The apps have not been tested and developped for and tested against that modified SDK, making the distros responsible for verifying that the apps are still working as expected to ensure their users will have a decent experience.
- Breaking apps downstream and sending issues upstream to fix our downstream quirks is a no go. Sending our users to complain upstream is even worse.
Also: please don't call some of the finest developers and designers I know "webshit design nerds". If you don't understand an issue, STFU, lurk moar, and don't insult persons who actually studied an issue and try to fix a broken status quo.
@KekunPlazas do you feel better now, after ranting 6 posts into my notifications in response to a joke
1) GTK haven't manpower to maintain theming API (or is it a decision by design?)
2) Some GNOME developers keep spreading that CSS stylesheet can be used to provide third party themes that users or distro can apply
3) Some GTK apps developers complain for CSS stylesheet abuse
Maybe 1) could be made clear so users, app developers and distro that want theming will know that they have to use another toolkit, like Qt?
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