When you correct someone on terminology, you deeply hurt your chances at winning them over to your worldview. You should be willing to sacrifice the correct words if it means you can win the correct thoughts

@sir recently (well, last few months) I've come to this conclusion as well

it mildly hurts, but if it gets someone away from adobe, i'm all about it

who knows maybe they'll come across it in their own research too

@sir oh my gosh yes

because of all the time ive spent in academic math/foss projects and little outside i can get really pedantic when talking to people irl for little gain

it's a huge issue that im personally working on, because even if having exact terminology is useful—like in academia—it can be harmful when trying to have a discussion with somebody

@pounce @sir academic push for ultimate precision is the worst, you should've (not) seen the thread on my uni's mailing list about tearing down anti-lgbt posters and the amount of bikeshedding over definitions and dictionaries used

@sir this has long been my position on most issues. I think it's rooted in me wanting things to be efficient, like, why wouldn't you want to get the desired results sooner and with less energy?

The way I see these things is that you have a certain amount of goodwill/social capital that you can spend to convince people. If you insist on pedantry you're burning that capital at a tremendous rate and get almost nothing in return, plus you turn people off making them ignore you.

@kungtotte @sir Why wouldn't you? Because (taking the point to an extreme) the end doesn't justify the means.

I don't fully grasp this sentiment but it's something like:
"I would be glad to sway you, but not at the cost of perpetuating the practice of basing beliefs on irrationality"

@sir I wonder if this applies to me (in reverse or whatever). Will my chances of understanding someones worldview diminish if they correct my terminology? I don't think I'm that stupid, I hope...

@byllgrim @sir According to one view, concepts exist outside of terminology. But the language affects the ease of learning or reasoning with the concepts, thus picking appropriate terminology can make the concepts themselves more accessible for target audiences.

Some people indeed go out of their way and try to use the correspondent's language. And oftentimes are accused of being condescending because of that.
Some other don't care about the accessibility at all and just do their own thing.

@amiloradovsky @sir Please, be more normative, I like opinionated advice.

@byllgrim @sir I don't actually have a strong opinion on either of these questions:

- whether concepts are real and exist regardless of how they're called / represented in the language: mathematicians tend to believe that they are, but having spent so much time digging up formal logic, I'm not sure anymore

- I sympathize the idea of accessibility of ideas and concepts, picking terminology intuitive and familiar to larger population, but then again being called a "bro" isn't very encouraging

@sir This is very similar to the discussion about macrohards open source efforts. Could we try to distill the problem to its core? I don't understand it yet, but the divide in opinion seem to be about: Whether to do things "proper" all the way from the beginning, vs sacrifice a small part of ones principles until one gets a foothold and then attempt to turn things around "from inside" almost.

@sir The more words we use, the more complex our thinking is. It is important to restore the best terminology to better express the concepts.

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