@sir I hope we will be able to see an effort to reverse engineer EME.

@sir it's no longer possible to make any browser anyway.

@lain @sir it became an insanely difficult effort yeah. The web is out of control imho.

@lain @sir What about Servo, does it count? I also remember another engine in the works but I can't find it rn
@lain @sir and no I don't mean Metastream

if anything EMEs should be ignored, since it's either that or creating a whole new web alternative — the way to go long term, but too drastic rn

@xerz @lain @sir I can't use it on my OpenGL 2 Thinkpad, so it doesn't count.

@grainloom @lain @sir I'm still blown away there's people who use devices incompatible with OpenGL 3 as their daily drivers tbh :blobcatderpy:

@xerz @lain @sir I see no reason I should have to buy anything newer for web browsing. :blobshrug:
For games and 3d applications, sure, OpenGL 3 probably makes development easier enough that the switch is justified for some devs. (Although I'd still prefer compatibility with older versions.) But for browsers? Naahhh.

@grainloom @lain @sir I mean, you being able to hold on to your old hardware so far is not a reason to say Servo doesn't count because it won't work on it - and web browsers *are* 3D applications, at least as far as GPU rendering and WebGL are concerned

@xerz @lain @sir Well, they are, it's another matter if they should be. But its existence doesn't mean much to me. I'd rather Netsurf got more usability improvements and bugfixes. (and that they'd drop JS altogether)

@grainloom @lain @sir don't ask what you wish for, or they may switch to WASM

@xerz @lain @sir But ykno, Servo could just use OpenGL 3 as an optional optimization. It sucks it can't fall back to something else.
(or maybe it can now? been a while since i last tried it)

@grainloom @lain @sir I see them wanting a fresh new start with no baggage, and considering the low marketshare of OpenGL 2.x-only devices (even poor countries have plenty of OpenGL 3.x-compatible phones, desktops and laptops now), it's most likely not happening

@xerz @lain @sir True. But it still shouldn't be required for web browsing.

@grainloom @lain @sir if anything I wonder if there could be some way to compile Servo with the 3.x-specific tools off, using software rasterizing if needed.

@xerz @lain @sir I wonder if it would be faster than just simply using Netsurf...

@grainloom @lain @sir at the very least it would be more compatible
@sir @grainloom @lain yeah, but wouldn't that apply to all processes and threads?

@xerz @lain @grainloom you can force swrast with an environment variable, so the setting would only propegate as far as the env does

@sir @xerz @lain Haven't tried it with Servo yet, but it didn't work with Blender.

@xerz @lain servo is kind of dead, it's just a sandbox for silly ideas and a staging area for firefox refactoring, not a serious attempt to make a new browser engine

@sir @lain I wouldn't call it "kind of dead", but otherwise sure

if I could only remember the other engine tho, I probably can't find it because it wasn't open source
@sir @lain Yeah, it definitely deserves some, but it's not something I can recommend to most people even if ignoring EME-hungry websites. It's just not functional enough as soon as you introduce:

- Javascript
- Touch
- CSS3
@sir @lain I guess this comes back to the "no new web engines possible" thing, but that seems more about minimum scale as to be able to keep up
@lain @sir
Because this "browser" thing has been already done to death.
@lain @sir Well the only thing you can do is an interface over webkit(gtk/wpe) or chromium and to say fuck to EME and to the platforms using it (IIRC it's basically Netflix).

Stuff like netsurf or dillo is a bit interesting but their support for anything modern (like CSS3, HTML5 isn't a standard it changes all the time) is seriously lacking.

@sir All the more reason to pirate and keep on using indie browsers.

@sir Firefox doesn't natively support ActivityPub, a W3C standard.

Does that mean Firefox isn't a web browser?

@sir I'm very confused by this article. It's a complete non-sequitur. The W3C is a group that publishes web standards. They don't have any kind of enforcement authority.

If you make a web browser that only supports HTML 2.0 and nothing else, it's still a web browser.

Heck, a web browser can support nothing but plain text over gopher and it's still a web browser.

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