praise ads

the ad-supported web was an amazing outlet for me in my early teens before I started earning. btw here no bank account for me until 18 either. @sir's ideal no-ad CC pay-as-you-go web would've barred me from the only independent information channel.

praise email spam

the unwanted newsletter culture was an amazing way for me to spread the word about my product before I started earning. The ideal no-spam only-the-emails-you-want system would have barred me from the only independent information channel, email

@sir strawmanning is out of vogue for some while now.

the email spam I receive is subscription traffic only. self-hosting social media is still prohibitively expensive for me. I regard it as a relatively small price to pay for space on someone else's internet site.

@mexesoj446 I'm not strawmanning. I'm using an obviously wrong argument with the same justification that you're using to demonstrate the flaw in your reasoning. Your argument is that the ends justifies the means, and no, your shitty teenage blog does not justify the use of ads

@sir yes you are and what you called "a foult" in my reasoning is a product of your imagination, you did not even say what it is, a very bad faith move on your part. but you already see me as a sub human because of my age, not too surprised

@mexesoj446 @sir
You mean if it wasn't for ads, most websites would be behind a paywall?

@mexesoj446 @sir Out of curiosity are you donating to the mastodon dev team and your instances admin? Because I'm not and I still get to have this nice space thanks to the support of others.
Crowdfunding and a general freemium model can work for the web. It's what we have for the fediverse and many other projects.

@Niquarl @sir crowdfunding wasn't a thing at the time of social media launch, never mind the internet.

mastodon et al exist as an alternative to ad-sustained mainstream social media. if e.g. twitter demanded membership fees from the start, mastodon would be following suit. Bank cards are tracking too just like ads, but more insidious, since me being too young can't get one without approval of legal guardian.

@mexesoj446 This reminded me how @sir bragged about circumventing an internet block his parents set up. I bet the servers hosting the "sites" he visited were paid for by advertiser money, unless his mom oddly appreciated the suspicious CC "statements" for "circumventing" the paywall as well.

@mexesoj446 Evidently "I got mine you get yours" attitude is strong there; I saw him championing the micropayment business model for the Web not so long ago. @sir was ogling the free-to-browse ad-ridden Web once it was there, now effectively he wants to deny Zoomers doing the same in spirit of "it might as well turn to ashes after I leave for all I care".

replace it with better search/suggest functionality
I've seen one ad in possibly the last 5 years that I thought "that's actually a neat product". Ads are basically slavery.

@p @sir
IMO they're more of a brainwashing than slavery, but I agree with the sentiment.

Have you watched "The Century of the Self"?
@sir I'd rather have some advertising. Tracking is what should be abolished in my opinion. Advertising is good, what has been done with it is not.

@curlybryce advertising is not good. It is brain hacking. No one deserves to be manipulated into spending money feeding the capitalist machine.

@sir @curlybryce I remember being evaluated for release from psych care and they asked "Do you believe in mind control?" which I paused and responded "No, besides advertising" which made the guy also pause and agree with a laugh

@sir @curlybryce how can one promote a good thing to a vide range of community? For example a new FOS Software? Advertising is the only way I believe.

@avndp @curlybryce pull advertising, not push. Post it in places where users go to find out about new things. Appropriate subreddits, hacker news, lobsters, and so on. Use word of mouth, let people *pull* the information. Don't *push* it into people's faces when they didn't ask for it.

@avndp @curlybryce in my case I just announce things on my blog and infrequently cross-post to HN and let word of mouth do the rest, and I seem to have pretty successful projects

@sir @curlybryce I agree with your point to not dump crap at people. However, I feel that cross posting to XYZ also or word of mouth also amounts to advertising, isn't it?

@avndp @curlybryce aye, but no one is ever talking about it when they talk about advertising.

@sir @curlybryce then advertising is good, but not dumping crap and tracking!?

@avndp @curlybryce there is ONE very specific acceptable form of advertising. There are dozens of forms which are not.

@sir @avndp @curlybryce I.e. genuinely building & participating in real communities then communicating with fellow members = all good.

Subverting genuine community building, supporting them only for the purpose of exploitation, then interjecting messages where they don't belong = no good.

@sir @curlybryce Capitalism predates consumerism so it's safe to say you're feeding that regardless. In their defense, ads entice resource hoarders to part with their money so the younger generation can get work. Granted, it's an enormously inefficient system (perhaps only rivaled by the US military as an arguably even more inefficient welfare system). There seems no other way for the kids not born into wealth to pull themselves up by the bootstraps short of actually taxing the money itself.

@sir There are actually pretty cool groups around the world opposing ads.
In France we have @RAPasso (They even have a peertube instance!)

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