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Nobody gives a fuck about stability, or testing, or security, or bloat, or simplicity, or even producing software which works in the first place. They just want to spend the minimum effort required to get paid.

I fucking hate this industry.

Imagine if we lived in a world where reliable, cost-effective software was the norm, and failures were as rare as they are in other engineering domains. Instead we have a world where everything is fucking half-assed bargain bin shit piled upon 30 layers of abstractions, huge hulking Goliaths made entirely from feces, shoving everything else out of the way as it stumbles painfully slowly towards the window to paint a cat gif on your screen, then failing halfway through and burning your house down instead.

AND THIS IS CONSIDERED NORMAL

WHY ARE WE OKAY WITH THIS

And yet we spend obscene engineering resources on reliability and scalability for spyware, intrusive advertising, gambling, addictive design

Fuck this shitty planet

@HappyWizard one gets paid way less cleaning up that mess. one developer once told me (trying to give quote as exact as i remember): "you waste time trying to write clean software, someone else will beat you to market. be the first to market and fix the software, if you want. you stand to make more if you sell or lease it. make fixing it someone else's problem. move on to something else to push to market." that person writes mostly android applications. @sir

@nergal @sir Culture (capital) tends towards novelty/flashy and almost has a disdain for maintenance (and tradition). Software is a dense microcosm of this dance of attention and capital/energy

@HappyWizard [correction]it is {i had said it was not}. back in archlinux-offtopic days so many of the present types "common" software platforms showed for the first time. the developers did not care that these abstractions were unnecessary. they purposely wrote something that did much underneath for "rapid development" knowing how hard it is to maintain and how vulnerable the assembly is to attack. iot was common with the i-run-root crowd (crazy lot that ran everything root). @sir

@sir

Majority of people prefer to pay $$$ to websites having the above (also add porn), which is why these sectors have the $$$ 🤷‍♂️

@sir You're not the only one seeing it this way, and I'd wager this is one of the points why sourcehut is appealing to people sharing these sentiments. One of the ways to stick it to the industry is by creating superior products.

@sir its just like yelling at the painter of this to "use perspective" before it was even invented

Humanity has barely begun to understand the higher thinking required to see process as a "shape" (spacetime vs space time thinking)

We're more blind that we can even imagine

@sir i had a nightmare that had a happy ending: somehow i ended up in space sheltering from some electric storm anomaly that also caused water to be deadly to mammals and humans that were not in a faraday cage. the rich hid in faraday cage ships with the livestock, while some organization pushed to have the poor stay in space for 4 days. we were up there for 4 years because the communication system license on the spacecraft expired and they lost our position in orbit ...

@sir due to signal refraction of space debris. there were some coders and the they had some polymorphic kernel or such that autofit itself to any firmware and provided abi and api for any known language and bytecode. the gist of the nightmare is a few people died because of bad coding habits and abstractions. it took 2 years to simplify coding and kids had to write the new code to pilot the spacecraft back to earth. it is the hazards of space that forced simplicity and clean code.

@sir interesting is from the moment we decided to leave we signed a declaration that burying the dead is waste of food. no one would be killed for food when food ran out. whomever died would be eaten and replenish food stores. one person served 20.

@sir
>failures were as rare as they are in other engineering domains

A quick reminder that automotive industry is becoming similarly shitty.

And as the Boeing 737 MAX incident shows, this has started creeping into aviation as well.

@wolf480pl @sir The 737 MAX incident is heavily overlapping the software industry. It's code that wasn't tested when provided bad data or no data ultimately causing crashes. Yeah the mechanical design was shit, but if the software hadn't been running the pilots would have had a chance at landing.

But yeah, I wouldn't say the auto industry has historically giving a shit about doing things better than absolutely required by law.

@rune @sir
>It's code that wasn't tested

And programmers that weren't aware of the requirements for avionics software.

And lack of training for pilots.

>if the software hadn't been running the pilots

...would have noticed the plane is handling really weird from the start.
Also, if they were aware of MCAS, they'd have known to disable it when it malfunctioned AFAIK.

Also, if the manufacturer didn't try hard to sell a new airplane with the old certification, none of that would happen.

@rune @sir
IMO in case of 737 MAX, the software is a scapegoat

@wolf480pl @sir If the airplane wasn't going to be sold with the old certification they could have just made a proper plane.

The problems were born outside of the program, as they often are, but in the situation the code was what actively crashed the plane. Training or no. Even if they were trained to turn it off it still would be terrible software.

@rune @sir my point is, the aviation industry has started rotting too. It's not only the software part that was involved in cutting corners.

@wolf480pl @sir Oh for sure. On top of the company mismanaging the "software-industry" side of the issue, they wouldn't even have needed that software if they didn't royally screw up the mechanical engineering.

@sir because the people who are involved in this shit today are well paid.

@sir Ah yes, employment-driven development. Should be banned.

@OTheB @sir you mean are the ones that employees choose to use those 30 layers of abstraction shit to build on, so they can be treated like easy to replace code monkeys? dooon't think so..

@zeh @sir I mean development that is only done because it's what you're being paid to do, and so not doing it loses you your job.

Development driven by the need to stay employed.

@sir This is the reason why I am gradually closing my IT free software company. I spend like half of my time debugging super simple tools that have never ever been fully reliable. Not only it's exhausting but it's also extremely uncomfortable to propose to the customers solutions that I cannot trust entirely. Now I'm just proposing two or three softwares and it is enough to spend weeks to debug for any f*cking reason. I'm done with it.

@sir ridiculous idea: can we create very highly metaphorical systems? Just forget about computer science and solve all problems in a completely different domain?? How much effort does that entail? Does it even make sense?

@sir
Thanks for all the work you do to try and make it better.

@sir it's more profitable that way and the higher-ups get to decide. and we all know: profit comes first!

@sir This right here! Every job I get they talk all this mad shit in the interview about what they want, their engineering principals, etc and yet when I get in it's just rushed shit to please a bunch of non-technical higher ups. The industry is jacked and a lot of people on this thread have pointed out a lot of good reasons why... #latestagecapitalism

@sir because the most of the people are self-pity egocentric sneaky rats which wet dream is to get everything free on wish.

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