@sir oh that was a good series of polls. If you answered correctly, they were all 'discovered'
@sir how about music? Paintings? Books? Recipes? Shufflings of a deck of cards? Interesting to see what people think.
@sir I've been thinking about this since ya posted it. Really interesting to think about. I'm not sure about any of them now
@sir Math is in a superposition of both. Sometimes you look for something that applies and invent a respective tool for its application, and sometimes you have some existing tools and discover some novel application.
What I'm missing is Schrödinger's option to the available choices.
@rozenglass @sir math is neither invented nor discovered, it is only taught. If you are sitting in the corner brainstorming that's not math. Math starts when you start explaining it to another person. You don't need arithmetic or even a concept measurement to build a tent, you need them to tell me how to build a similar tent on a small clay tablet, cause they heavy af.
I'm just saying none of that is math. Math is not the science of some fundamental truth (in a way it proved that such truth is impossible to define https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarski's_undefinability_theorem). I'm also not saying that invention, discovery or common sense do not exist. They do. They come from various places, be that the physical world, or your imaginary unicorn land. Still not math.
I'm playing around with some sticks and woah a tent appears! (not math)
Can I do this again? Woah I did it again! (still not math)
This is kinda tedious, maybe I could get Bobalice (ancient Babylonian name) to do this for me. How do I explain it though? (this is where it starts)
Bobalice after explanation: I knew this before you were born you dumbo (math still happened)
Tent is an analogy of any discovery or invention or knowledge. The rigorous explanation is math, even if it's an explanation of something well known. It's useless you would say, and sure it is, until you are sufficiently advanced to build a machine (in the broadest sense) that can make tents, then it becomes your holy grail.
Something that exists in just one person's head will not exist for long. Unless of course they make it into a machine which no one else understands. I for one welcome our rob... no I don't!
Math is the teachings of our kind. I can't imagine any other definition that wouldn't be religious.
Our good robot servants we understand, the one we don't/can't understand will make us its servants, or worse deprecate us. That's what I meant. If it's not that machine, and is just coincidentally unexplained, than someone will come up with an explanation eventually. And until that point we'll be wondering "is this math or is this our new overlords?" with some thick plot, much better than terminator or matrix.
@sir Recalled (Plato)
@sir this is a philosophical question. There isn't a right answer per se.
@sir if math are discovered, then there must be a higher being that invented it in the first place. For atheists, the answer should be obvious.
Either math are invented and mathematicians are ingenious and creative folks, or math are discovered and mathematicians are the higher echelon of priests for a religion that has hardly any influence beyond the discussion circles of universities math departments.
@rbd "if math are discovered, then there must be a higher being that invented it in the first place."
BIG leap of logic there
@sir well, who invented math then?
@rbd I reckon math is discovered
@rbd @sir "Math is discovered" means the laws of math were invented at the beginning of the universe along with everything else. We discover them, assign names to them, and try to understand how they work.
It is akin to asking, "Who invented gravity?" The answer has to do with the origin of the universe, which is a bigger philosophical and scientific question.
When I was completing my masters degree in maths, we had the discussion about this question with our teachers, and they explained that it is a common subject of debate between researchers: some say math are invented by the mathematicians, others say math are only discovered and <place your favorite deity here> initially invented it.
The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!