Revised git master -> main thoughts 


Also, if you actually care about addressing systemic racism, and you're advocating for s/master/main/g, then you had fucking better be out there protesting, donating to charitable causes, and doing action of real significance, too.

@sir I just wish the day pple would b decent enough to do the right thing instead of waiting for others to march in the streets 💁‍♂️

@sir Words speak louder than actions! Or was it the other way around? I'm confused.

@sir Also we absolutely need to get rid of the word "maestro" in orchestras since it's just the Italian name of Master and probably ridden with systemic oppression or something. Did people complain about that yet?

@sir Also looking forward to people who will have to find a new name to describe their "masters' degrees". That's going to be a lot of paperwork.

@boilingsteam @sir not quite, the word maestro in italian means teacher. The equivalent of your intended meaning of master in italian is "padrone".

@kriive @sir It comes from the same root which is magister in Latin.

@boilingsteam @sir yeah, but I am italian, and I'm pretty sure we don't use maestro with that meaning.

@boilingsteam @sir I agree, I was only pointing out that the word Maestro does not mean owner of slaves in Italian. It means teacher, leader, conductor as you mentioned. In ancient italian it meant boss or shop owner, but there isn't any racial meaning hidden in it. Of course, I am speaking of italian, I don't know about other languages.

@kriive @sir Maybe you missed the irony of my comments. I was never implying that "master" means "owner of slaves", rather the contrary. More often than not "master" is used in common vocabulary in the meaning of "mastery", i.e. becoming an expert at something and therefore being able to teach etc... The crusade against that word is just silly and driven by pure ignorance.

@boilingsteam @sir I understood the irony lol. I agree with you that the term itself isn't a racial reference in the case of git. My opinion is just that it is a message the tech world is carrying, something like: "we know that master here has another meaning, but to enforce the idea that we're against racism, we are going change master to main anyway, so people will notice and talk about it". Unfortunately we are stuck on discussing the raw terminology I guess.

@kriive @boilingsteam @sir
"I agree with you that the term itself isn't a racial reference in the case of git."

It's literally a master-slave reference, how does that not have racial connotations?

@mathew @kriive @boilingsteam in git, master refers to the master copy, not to a relationship between master and slave. Who exactly is the "slave" in git? There are no references to slave in the git source code.

@sir @kriive @boilingsteam
There's no reference to slave *now*, because it was removed. For links to proof, see:

@mathew @kriive @boilingsteam I have heard this argument before, and I find it pretty weak. It's an extremely thin attempt at retroactive justification for the argument, not an empirical analysis. I do not speak from ignorance; read the rest of the thread.

@sir @kriive @boilingsteam
Eh, looks to me as if the people who say there's no slavery connotation as the ones trying to retroactively rewrite history.

@mathew @kriive @boilingsteam if I grep the mailing list going back to the beginning of time, I could probably turn up at least one reference to basically any word. Sorry, I don't buy it.

The problems this change will introduce are significant, and a critical examination of the argument is entirely called for. It's a moralized issue, which makes this needlessly annoying, but the discussion still ought to be had.

@sir @kriive @boilingsteam
I already changed most of my repos and encountered no problems at all. If you have problems, work on them as time allows. Or just don't change your repos, nobody's making you.

@mathew @kriive @boilingsteam you know this thread is about a breaking change upstream? It's not an opt-in thing that you can just ignore or adapt to in your own time. It's *going to break things*.

@sir @kriive @boilingsteam
If upstream broke their repo, complain to them about the choice they made.

@sir @kriive @boilingsteam
That's what the arguments against this change always come down to, isn't it?

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@mathew @boilingsteam @sir i am literally in favour of rhe master -> main change if you read my previous points, but not quite for the same reason as yours.

@kriive @boilingsteam @sir

We don't call owners of slaves "masters" in US English either. We call them slaveowners.

@sir my own 2cents: I'm a teacher at a public university in math/computer science and we talk about this in class. Our school is 48% minority. Many of my students say it matters to them, and we've had lots of discussions when Python removed master/slave terminology. I'll also say that in various programming circles I'm part of that consist of many from marginalized or misrepresented communities, they say these words absolutely matter. We should do the right thing by making this easy change.

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