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Drew DeVault @sir

Windows: let's use a proprietary database format people need a GUI to manage and complicated scripts to automate

Unix: how about like, text files

Gnome: hey how about a proprietary database format people need a GUI...

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@sir proprietary? gnome seems open source...

@SoniEx2 proprietary has multiple meanings

@sir @SoniEx2

Sorry if I'm being pedantic, but "recondite" might be a more appropriate adjective for GNOME's gconf formats.


@starbreaker @SoniEx2 proprietary is correct, it's specifically designed for Glib with an opaque underlying storage system

@sir @SoniEx2 It might be specifically designed for Glib, but the only thing stopping developers from using it elsewhere is their own good sense.

@starbreaker @SoniEx2 nothing stops people from implementing the Windows registry either, see Wine. Proprietary is definitely valid here

@sir when dconf was first introduced there were claims that it vastly improved startup times but I didn't really believe the hype, and given the way gsettings schemas introduce more filesystem objects I don't see how things are actually simplified in practice. has anybody revisited this stuff with a critical eye?

@sir I remember when Theodore Ts'o said that everyone should use a registry instead of text files as his answer to ext4 losing data

@vi @sir
ext4 losing data?
I thought only ffs does this...

@Wolf480pl ext4 truncating files after unexpected shutdowns was very common

I've used ffs for years, never lost anything, but I lost data in the week or two that I used ext4 for.

Isn't ext4's journal supposed to prevent metadata corruption on unexpected shutdown tho?

Also, I've heard @mulander get his git repo on ffs corrupted on sudden shutdown, where a piece of another file somehow got put in .git/refs/heads/master

@Wolf480pl @mulander Files opened O_TRUNC were immediately truncated, but then ext4 would take its sweet time flushing the new data to disk, so if power cut between the truncate and the flush, ext4 would think the file was *supposed* to be empty. T'so argued for months that this was a feature.

@vi @mulander and then they added a heuristic to detect such use and flush the file immediately?

@Wolf480pl @vi @mulander Isn't potential truncation of recently-written data an explicit, documented tradeoff of using only metadata journaling in ext4? If this is unacceptable, that's what data journaling is for.

Windows: hey what about being able to project virtual files onto the filesystem

9p: kill me now. It's over. Goodbye cruel world.

@sir @gemlog
#GNOME: To prove the superiority of open source, we'll replicate MS's worst ideas a few years after MS has proved they're bad ideas!

... and that's one of many reasons why I use #KDE. :-)

@jeremiah @sir miguel wrote one good thing, but the rest of his career has been a pita. He just effed up and infected linux with microsoft bullshit thinking.

@sir Where's is the fun if you can't ' 0' 0' DROP TABLES *; --

@sir i mean............its not proprietary, the source code is open and anyone can use it. I'm not going to not call it overtly complex and frankly dumb but like, its not proprietary

@oct2pus proprietary can also mean specific to GNOME

@sir mate uses it, as far as im aware other people...could use it

@oct2pus not really, it's not standardized or documented. The implementation is the documentation.

@sir oh its that stupid BS.

same beef I have with wayland. Although it looks like you're the guy aiming to fix that one with wlroots

@sir Hmm? gsettings/dconf is usable on the CLI

@k and technically the registry is too

@sir text files are also proprietary.

here, let me store your keys in URI-encoded.

here, let me store your keys in fucking C string literal syntax, complete with concatenation feature and embed NUL.

here, let me store your keys as arrays of C string literals, so you can have paths/pseudo-objects.

here, let me store your config as a Lua file, with recursive tables as keys.

@sir actually, any config format is inherently proprietary.

because app configs aren't supposed to be portable across different apps.

you can't run apache with ssh's configs.

@SoniEx2 text files are dead simple and can be edited/copied/backed up/version controlled/etc trivially.

No fucking clue what the rest of your babble is about