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@lachs0r @velartrill ah. Not everyone is using a Googled-up Android device.

@lachs0r @velartrill and most laptops have Intel ME... you need to understand the limitations of your system as far as preserving privacy is concerned, regardless of the system. Even outside of Android, lots of laptops and computers come with Windows pre-loaded with heaps of spyware. You won't be secure with Tor browser on any platform until you understand that platform in depth. Not a reason to discourage people from using tor in general imo

@sir @velartrill But a reason to discourage people from using proprietary systems.

@sir @lachs0r you're correct that using tor on windows isn't any smarter than using it on a mobile device. that does not mean that using tor on a mobile device is safe, it means that people shouldn't use windows, and it's interesting how instead of treating that fact as vulnerability to warn people away from, you're using it to try and play down other vulnerabilities. almost like the safety of others isn't actually your first priority.

yes, ME is a thing, assuming you're using an x86 laptop, but it's not constantly streaming telemetry to remote servers, so comparing it to mobile or windows spyware seems ignorant and disingenuous - the threat isn't that someone will be able to break into your computer and find your browsing history, it's that you'll catch unwanted attention in the first place. if ME were a source of that we'd be seeing a lot more child porn arrests, instead of the feds exploiting arcane protocol vulnerabilities to deanonymize tor traffic.

i have to say that encouraging people to do dangerous shit from a position of obvious ignorance while accusing others of fearmongering is a really shitty thing to do, and it makes it pretty clear you are not engaging in good faith. i have nothing further to say to you.

@velartrill @lachs0r my point in bringing up Windows and ME is that Android is not particularly exceptional as a platform to be wary of when running Tor. Same goes for most Linux distributions, too. Leaks can come from a lot of places. And don't forget that making one arrest based on a specific vulnerability burns that vulnerability forever. Accordingly, to date the authorities have focused on exploits which can catch a wide net of targets. This is mainly why ME hasn't been leveraged, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it used in the future to target a specific VIP.

Back on topic, I don't think anything is wrong with Tor's marketing, and I think you're trying to push a respected and important project down a peg to make yourself look smarter on the internet, then doubling down when you're called out on. Your acusation that I'm arguing in bad faith is based on some really flimsy justification and gives you an excuse to stop having to defend your position. You have nothing more to say to me - because attempting to would threaten your worldview. Not going to apologise for that.

@sir @velartrill Anti-censorship marketing? Perfectly fine, and a very good use of Tor. Marketing based on the argument of privacy on a platform that is designed for the very opposite of that goal? Yeeeah no.

How is that so hard to understand?

@sir @velartrill But nearly all phones are blackboxes, many of them had serious vulnerabilities and deliberate backdoors discovered (see everything Qualcomm ever made).

It doesn’t matter which OS you run on your phone because it has hardware components that allow remote control. And do not forget the vulnerabilities of SS7, 3G, etc.

@lachs0r @velartrill rounding back to my earlier argument... similar limitations are true of every platform you can run Tor on. Needing to understand the constraints for your system is not a responsibility unique to Android users. Tor does a pretty good job educating users on how to use it safely, and I have no problems with this marketing material. And given that that we're going in loops now, let's drop the issue until someone has something novel to say.

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