Petition to remove the ability for JavaScript to manipulate scrolling from all web browsers


Petetion to remove JavaScript from all web browsers

How about a step further, we remove JS completely?!

@ignaloidas how about let's just not let websites run arbitrary code on my computer

@sir I think the problem isn't with websites running arbitrary code on your computer. I think the problem is that that code has too much ability to change your abilities to use the web as you want to.

@ignaloidas @sir The problem *is* with arbitrary code! Crypto miners don't affect your ability to use the Web, for example, and the code can even deofuscate itself! You can hide malicious code to be literally invisible. That should not be possible at all.

@alvarezp @sir They affect your ability to use web IMO. Adding an CPU limit slider would help.

@sir Petition asking people to disable JS on their own

@espectalll @sir The problem with this is that many sites for some reason depend on having JavaScript enabled. If people would use JavaScript to “upgrade” a normal site, and have it still completely usable without JavaScript, this would be a viable solution.

@tyil @sir many use modern client-side frameworks like React or Vue - if we make pressure by actively rejecting JavaScript, it's obvious developers will slowly push more towards progressive enhancement and running the least client-side code possible

@espectalll @sir That’d be a fun idea, if it worked. Many privacy and security minded people have been pushing against more JS in the browser for a while, yet the opposite of what you pose is happening. And honestly, if I need to use a government or banking website, and they require JS, I don’t have much choice but to enable it.

@tyil @sir I just use NoScript, while it doesn't give as fine grained control as uMatrix (also a thing) it works well with containers

@sir sadly that would do more bad than good :/

@biosmarcel @sir that's just what Big Scriptma want you to think!

@alvarezp @sir Because a lot of useful things would break. While some might abuse JS, many don't. And it's unfair to ignore the good parts.

@biosmarcel @sir Same argument was given by some people back when Win98 did not have restricted accounts, same argument for macros in Office documents... yet, bad ideas The more we set roots into this, the more painful will it be to fix it.

@alvarezp @biosmarcel @sir Certainly, backwards compatibility can't an excuse not to reverse terrible decisions.

The good parts of JavaScript can be replaced in ways that don't have us running whatever untrusted software The Internet gives us. And can ensure the alternatives gracefully degrade enough that pages still work on unsupporting browsers.

I really like Intercooler.js's ideas for starters.

@alvarezp @biosmarcel @sir Another reason to dislike JavaScript:

It may arguably improve your site's experience on a desktop/laptop or even touchscreen phone, but it worsens your experience on, say, a "smart" TV or voice assistant even more so. This promise of universal accessibility was a big selling point for the Web early-on.

I really don't know how I'd conveniently incorporate JavaScript into a voice assistant experience. The APIs don't gell well.

@biosmarcel @sir @alvarezp
>many dont

many dont
you hear that guys, the majority of websites out there dont use js for loading-bar overlays or animated dropdown menus or GDPR banners, they use it responsibly!
@biosmarcel @alvarezp @sir well if you give a webdev an inch they'll take a mile, which is exactly how we ended up in this hellhole in the first place

get over yourself, by the way
@biosmarcel @alvarezp @sir if i was being a prick i would have been calling you a dumbass and telling you to fuck yourself

which i may as well do now, since youve proven yourself to be worthless

@opal @alvarezp @biosmarcel this is the part where I take my leave from this thread, please don't @ me

@sir you act as if you arent equally abrasive

@opal @sir @alvarezp

>get over yourself, by the way

If you imply me being part of the problem. I am not even a webdev. If missunderstood this, then sorry, am not a native speaker.

@biosmarcel the "get over yourself" was directed at your assumption that i was being a prick, rather than parodying the situation of js at large

@biosmarcel @opal @sir Not my intention to offend, but I have been going through the same argument again and again... and again... and again... most people start with a similar argument. If we were in person with dedicated time it would be way easier. Sorry about this.


What are you sorry for? You haven't done anything wrong ^^

@biosmarcel Yeah, I read the whole thead now. His comment was totally uncalled for. I sometimes come with strict arguments and some people get offended so I thought I was offending. Relieved to see it was not the case. :-)

@sir I would like that too! But a friend once told me: would you like to have Flash back? Oh, the horror! So to prevent that from happening we need to seriously improve HTML and CSS first.

@sir Remove browsers as such and make common protocols and native apps for everything: there isn't very much applications, actually. Yes, it smells early 2000's, but this time AGPL should be de facto requirement.

@sir well, there is a CSS draft on its way to finally bring smooth scrolling to CSS, instead of JavaScript.

@sir @hirojin maybe if it's css you can slap some !important in your user agent stylesheet and be done with it?

@314 @sir it means it's possible, at all, unlike with JavaScript.

but, frankly, i would appreciate the ability to disable certain functionality from being accessible thru JavaScript, or, like being able to "edit" what's being run

right now, it's URL based access control only (adblock), and i don't think that's enough.

@hirojin @sir maybe if we poke browser vendors or European Union hard enough
I've often thought about something halfway, like a sort of neuterscript, where it can only do things like animations.
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